Alfamax wonders if Australian women are too picky?
"If a man commits adultery with the wife of an Israelite, both he and the woman shall be put to death. " (Leviticus 20:10)
It’s a good thing that we don’t live by this one anymore Leviticus 20:10, it would have detrimental effect on the worlds population!
Dave has pointed out the fact that marriage as demonstrated in western culture acts as a type of 'social thermostat' that helps prevent communities from descending into chaos whilst also being a useful instrument for stability within the home so that children may have dependability with 2 parents living together under the one roof . We can probably all agree on that I’d say. It might take a village to raise a child, but it takes a village to accommodate the needs of adults too so that they may contribute to society in some positive way.
Everyone here is fully aware that we have divorce rate close to 50% but we shouldn’t assume that the other 50% who are still together are living in married bliss. Obviously the anomie of the times is partly to blame and another question that springs to mind is what is the root cause of the adultery and the somewhat negative social norms that we have now? Did it start in the 1960s as I suggested earlier or was it on the decline way before then?
Some people have this ambivalence towards the idea of marriage now, they want it all but want to be married also, the state of being married and ones desires don’t actually fit together too well at times, as Dave pointed out people do need to adjust their expectations to realistic levels, there needs to be a balance between ones own happiness and that of the marriage union, but it is difficult to serve two masters at the same time though, this is where some amount of personal sacrifice comes into it, which is a quality that is lacking somewhat, because modern life is all about me, me, me, I , I , I.
The flip side is one that Jo touched on with simply not being able to find it within herself to initiate or get involved with a relationship. Whether it’s not being able to or being able to and not being happy with what you have, the end result is the same, that is, a general feeling of unhappiness which can and often does lead to depression.
For instance on the radio the other day I heard that in Australia in 2006 there were 20 million prescriptions filled for anti-depressant medication, given that Australia’s population is just north of that figure, it alarming to say the least, but these figures if correct can certainly go some way to be used as a basic indicator for the nations mental health and general well-being.
Dave also mentioned the expectations that each gender places on the other, this is something that most people are aware of to some degree I think and this probably has some effect on people’s anxiety when entering into a union with another, hence some just give up and try to get on with living life alone, the problem is of course is that arrangement doesn’t work out too well in the long run for most. Isolation and a feeling of alienation usually results in more isolation and loneliness. The fact is that when you cut through all of the BS, we for the most part need meaningful, healthy relationships.
Dave wrote: “We in the west tend to evaluate all institutions and relationships on the basis of how they benefit the individuals involved, rather than looking at their broader social value, and so we have little reason for maintaining the traditional institution”
I think this some of this gets back to those social norms I mentioned up above, in the west we are said to be individualists whereas in the countries like China and Japan they are the exact opposite, collectivists. this may go some way to explaining the low divorce rate of Japan at just 27% which is a far cry from the average in western countries. It’s worth mentioning also that a survey was done amongst a representative demographic in India taking 8,436 women, 22% of the marriages of this group were consanguineous - that is marriage by two people who are blood related!, it just touches on what ‘social norms’ are all about.
Dave wrote: My personal belief is that once we adjust our expectations for marriage to a realistic level, we can be liberated to appreciate our partners for all they do have to give us, rather than expecting from them what they cannot deliver.
That’s the hard part these days because of the ubiquitous lies that are generated by different individual members and institutions within society with regards to marriage etc. To make an obvious statement society is hugely fragmented right to the point where I believe its becoming dysfunctional and beyond repair, a huge catalyst of some kind is needed but that might be wishful thinking. As I say, one thing affects another and one person cannot live unaided in some way by one’s self indefinitely. There are no happy, healthy people without some sort of cohesive functioning community but there is no sense of community without happily attached or married people, question is which comes first?
It’s a good thing that we don’t live by this one anymore Leviticus 20:10, it would have detrimental effect on the worlds population!
Dave has pointed out the fact that marriage as demonstrated in western culture acts as a type of 'social thermostat' that helps prevent communities from descending into chaos whilst also being a useful instrument for stability within the home so that children may have dependability with 2 parents living together under the one roof . We can probably all agree on that I’d say. It might take a village to raise a child, but it takes a village to accommodate the needs of adults too so that they may contribute to society in some positive way.
Everyone here is fully aware that we have divorce rate close to 50% but we shouldn’t assume that the other 50% who are still together are living in married bliss. Obviously the anomie of the times is partly to blame and another question that springs to mind is what is the root cause of the adultery and the somewhat negative social norms that we have now? Did it start in the 1960s as I suggested earlier or was it on the decline way before then?
Some people have this ambivalence towards the idea of marriage now, they want it all but want to be married also, the state of being married and ones desires don’t actually fit together too well at times, as Dave pointed out people do need to adjust their expectations to realistic levels, there needs to be a balance between ones own happiness and that of the marriage union, but it is difficult to serve two masters at the same time though, this is where some amount of personal sacrifice comes into it, which is a quality that is lacking somewhat, because modern life is all about me, me, me, I , I , I.
The flip side is one that Jo touched on with simply not being able to find it within herself to initiate or get involved with a relationship. Whether it’s not being able to or being able to and not being happy with what you have, the end result is the same, that is, a general feeling of unhappiness which can and often does lead to depression.
For instance on the radio the other day I heard that in Australia in 2006 there were 20 million prescriptions filled for anti-depressant medication, given that Australia’s population is just north of that figure, it alarming to say the least, but these figures if correct can certainly go some way to be used as a basic indicator for the nations mental health and general well-being.
Dave also mentioned the expectations that each gender places on the other, this is something that most people are aware of to some degree I think and this probably has some effect on people’s anxiety when entering into a union with another, hence some just give up and try to get on with living life alone, the problem is of course is that arrangement doesn’t work out too well in the long run for most. Isolation and a feeling of alienation usually results in more isolation and loneliness. The fact is that when you cut through all of the BS, we for the most part need meaningful, healthy relationships.
Dave wrote: “We in the west tend to evaluate all institutions and relationships on the basis of how they benefit the individuals involved, rather than looking at their broader social value, and so we have little reason for maintaining the traditional institution”
I think this some of this gets back to those social norms I mentioned up above, in the west we are said to be individualists whereas in the countries like China and Japan they are the exact opposite, collectivists. this may go some way to explaining the low divorce rate of Japan at just 27% which is a far cry from the average in western countries. It’s worth mentioning also that a survey was done amongst a representative demographic in India taking 8,436 women, 22% of the marriages of this group were consanguineous - that is marriage by two people who are blood related!, it just touches on what ‘social norms’ are all about.
Dave wrote: My personal belief is that once we adjust our expectations for marriage to a realistic level, we can be liberated to appreciate our partners for all they do have to give us, rather than expecting from them what they cannot deliver.
That’s the hard part these days because of the ubiquitous lies that are generated by different individual members and institutions within society with regards to marriage etc. To make an obvious statement society is hugely fragmented right to the point where I believe its becoming dysfunctional and beyond repair, a huge catalyst of some kind is needed but that might be wishful thinking. As I say, one thing affects another and one person cannot live unaided in some way by one’s self indefinitely. There are no happy, healthy people without some sort of cohesive functioning community but there is no sense of community without happily attached or married people, question is which comes first?
posted by Father Dave at 12:41 AM
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